Citadel on Nethserver (Full Email, collaboration, groupware, and content management)

Feature
,
1

Is there a reason you haven’t considered running Citadel as a working solution for Nethserver. I have run it in the past and it is a very stable platform for collaboration and groupware.

Citadel - (Email Collaboration Groupware)
https://www.citadel.org/index.html

Packed with features:

  • email
  • calendar/scheduling
  • address books
  • bulletin boards (forums)
  • mailing list server
  • instant messaging
  • wiki and blog engines
  • multiple domain support
  • a powerful web interface
  • rss aggregation
  • text-based BBS client access (optional)

Screenshots -
https://www.citadel.org/screenshots.html

Would it be possible to get it working with NethServer?

I have used it in the past and it just works.

-SF-

1 Like
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Ah. I see someone raise this question in the past here -

Whatever came about it?

-SF-

3

i am curious, what would make you consider citadel over something like nextcloud,

equally, NS comes with a comple email server suite, with groupware like Webtop5 iwth basically all th bells and whisltes, oh and it also integrates with VOIP phone, and hopefull, when Nethvoice is released, i think there might be some intergrations.

have you tied Webtop.5

4

@Shadowfire

It looks good, but it seems to be missing smartphone integration.
No vCard Support, nor CalDAV. GroupDav doesn’t seem much used by smartphones.
And no “Apps” on either smartphone platform?

My 2 cents
Andy

2 Likes
5

I’m missing the client feature of CalDAV and CrdDAV, among others.
And I don’t see any need for using ActiveSync on non Microsoft systems…

Worst of all: No integration with NextCloud!

I don’t really see what’s so great about WebTop…

My 2 cents
Andy

2 Likes
6

Wait, is it not Possible to Intgerate Webtop5 with NExtcloud in NS8, because i sure do remember this was posisble with NS7

7

AFAIK, in NS7 it was not possible to integrate WebTop with either CalDAV or CrdDAV to use these protocols from any other server except WebTop.

No sync of addresses or Calendar.
Only congregates on mail, which is provded by dovecot, not WebTop or NextCloud.
AFAIK, both WebTop and NextCloud mail can use IMAP on Dovecot - which is not really ANY integration.

Did you ever set this up and had it working?

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ON MAtters Calendar and AddressBook, you are very right, this was not possible, i am not sure why @webtop_team dev did not see the need to implement Cardav and caldav support or even just ability to sync with an existing caldav and cardav server.

Overall, the syncing can be acheived with third party tools, and its cumbersom

As discussed in this thread a while back: The Trouble In Calendars - Chat - NethServer Community

i think @mrmarkuz pointed out about using webtop as a caldav client here: The Trouble In Calendars - #6 by mrmarkuz

Mostly the Files Part.

9

@oneitonitram

Oh, trust me I like Nextcloud and would use it. But from what I have run and seen with Nextcould it tends to have some challenges from how it seems to work. It also requires a beefy system to not be sluggish, also the email side of it is odd, it should have it’s own built in webclient, or at least make it easy to have others work with it - but I have not seen that (I am speaking of my experience with it - I don’t know if this is due to my installation only and configuration)

I am running Webtop 5 now. It does the job. But I have problems with calendar properly syncing to mine and others phones. The interface on it is ok, the admin on the backend is busy and kind akward. The Cloud/Files side (My resources) of it is also awkward and does not allow you to preview through a mouse over or clicking on documents (ex: pdf, jpg, png, tiff, doc, docx, xls, xlsx, and so on). There are other things about Webtop 5, but I will spare you it.

I use to run Citadel as my main email and it was a workhorse and just worked. The collaboration and groupware side of it is nice. The notes are a nice additive to the groupware and collaboration side. Same with the BBS / forums style, and it can also be access with text based terminal as tho you were connecting to a BBS as well.

I agree it could use a face lift (but I believe someone could fix that easy tho), infact it has customization docs for it here

Webcit:
https://www.citadel.org/customize_webcit.html
Example:
https://www.citadel.org/example1.html
UserList:
https://www.citadel.org/userlist.html
Room:
https://www.citadel.org/room.html
Login
https://www.citadel.org/login.html
RichEdit
https://www.citadel.org/richedit.html

also it could use a backup script and gui for it to be built in. (I believe this could also be added), it was easy enough to setup a backup that I didn’t worry about it not having it built in.

I would guess that that the vCard Support, CalDv, GroupDav and smartphone integration could be added as well.

But at the end of the day it just works and you know what your getting.

10

GroupDAV is included, but simple stuff like CrdDAV import / export has to be done with a clunky script - not really smartphone friendly…

Actually, on the whole Citadel site, not one word about smartphones or integration…
E-Mail? Sure IMAP and SMTP works, but E-Mail without any adressbook? Be serious! :slight_smile:

See the full feature list of Citadel? It seems like a 404 is the only feature!

And in 2023, no smartphone integration is really a simple and valid reason to not further look at a software!

My 2 cents
Andy

1 Like
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When last did you try NExtcloud? i think even the current mail app in NExtcloud, surpirses even me, its become abit more feature rich, and even in the current version 28, they have done alo tmore to imporve on the mail app.

if you need preview capabilities, its best to conenct it with Collabora andor nextcloud, it will import those super powers.

IF you require Citadel as a Module, then i think, you might have to disable mail functions on your NS8 system, am saying NS8 because i dont think it can be available on NS7.

Could you share link to its Docker compose repo, to see what’s happening within it, and maybe, someone form the community might implement a Module for it in NS8, but i highly doubt if the Main Devs might consider building yet another Mail module for NS8, take a look at the mail modules repo, you might understand why.

12

the closest tool to what citadel is doing that is not NExtcloud is this here: ONLYOFFICE DocSpace 2.0 released | ONLYOFFICE Blog from Onloffice,

EDIT: i meant onlyoffice workspace: Your virtual digital workspace | ONLYOFFICE
there was a time @mrmarkuz and i installed it on Nethserver7 and tested it, it was not as mature as it is now, i gues, maybe this one could get a module on NS8.

What you are pointint out seems to be alot of WOrk for someone to pull on a project they are not using, unless someone with serious chums sponsors that endeavour, ofcourse, any softwrae project thats opensource, no matter how the interface looks like can always be reskined, Love how the @dev_team did with NEthsecurity, you cant tell its OpenWRT under the hood.

but hey those are way too many things to do for a project with which, there is other projects that can offer the same value, that are actively maintained.

is citadel actively maintained? based on this, citadel / Citadel · GitLab

seems it is actively developed.

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@Andy_Wismer

I appreciate your input and thoughts. Thanks for taking the time to for sharing your thoughts on Citadel and the other projects already being used with Nethserver 7/8. It’s true. I have not tried the latest version of NextCloud. Maybe I will review it again and see what I get.

For the most part there are 2 good email suites available in the repo to use. Sogo and Webtop5 are good selections.

Citadel has a address book. Not sure what you mean?

I think Andy is correct in the sense that Citadel doesn’t to my knowledge have vCard support, CalDav, as well as smartphone support, so I don’t want to cause a challenge for Dev’s in looking further.

Thanks,
-SF-

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A smartphone can use Citadel as mailserver, but without any addressbook support for smartphones, why would anyone want to?

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15

All requests and suggestions in this community are valid, but as the requester, you need to defend your request for viability, as considering chances are you might not be the one building the implementation, so basically, you need to convince the community why someone should consider putting in their time and effort to implementing something.

you’ll notice that there are requests in the past that were worked on very fast, sometime almost immediately, while others took abit longer.

SOmeone who sees value on what is shared might be inclined to implement it because they also want to use it.

16

I agree - a good system, this way no one is taken off work that they should finish, and it gives a chance for everyone to review the validity of the request and if it has merit to move forward for a closer look.

This is why I posted the question about Citadel. And you and Andy responded with your thoughts, which I appreciate you guys for the brainstorming and insight. I realize that this is a good way to bring up possibilities and proceed with understanding, and if enough people see value, then maybe it will be received to move forward for a closer look.

But as Andy did point out, it maybe missing some key features that would required to be fixed before it could be considered fully. I did reach out to today to verify with IGnatius at Citadel and raised a question on the support forums to make sure that vCard and CalDav are builtin or not.

In anycase. thankful for the process and moving forward.

Thanks,
-SF-

2 Likes
17

The answer to this request would be interesting, can you probably share it?

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Citadel can already handle vCards - but not yet the protocol needed by clients to sync them (CrdDAV).

Reading the FAQ for Citadel, I see there IS an App for integrating Android, and they’re developing CrdDAV and CalDAV (iOS / Mac)…

Seems like quite active - and interesting!

My 2 cents
Andy

1 Like
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Citadel:

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Running as Debian VM in Docker on Proxmox on my new Odroid

A nice toy to play around with these days…

:slight_smile:

My 2 cents
Andy

1 Like
20

I am not sure, but I think the FAQ might be a little old. I am gonna try see if IGnatius will tell me a little more where he is with it all.

Yes. It was when I was running my Citadel.

I will let you know what IGnatius says.

Thanks,
-SF-

2 Likes