After checking this Project Out: Pricing - Group-Office
I think we Are giving webtop Way less Credit to the Value they are providing.
kudos @webtop_team
The critical difference between Citadel and any others is it’s simplicity. A single binary basically doing the jobs of Dovecot, Postfix, but also Calendars and Adressbooks…
Citadel has been around MUCH longer than most MTAs, with the exception of perhaps sendmail itself.
Citadel doesn’t use any known or unknown MTA, it handels all itself!
As such, this is a “standing out feature”, way out before the “croud”.
Due to it’s maturity / age and usage, it’s basically proved itself as solid and secure.
WebTop, SoGo and/or Group-Office or whatever it’s called are a “collection” of tools, and each part of the chain can break the whole thing.
Neither SoGo nor Webtop as such don’t even handle mail themselves, both are basically a Web overlay or Web-App for IMAP providing some built in GroupWare functionality and MS ActiveSync as reverse engineered sync for mobile smartphones / tablets.
Any other difference is cosmetics…
My 2 cents
Andy
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I’d love to remind that Webtop is java-based.
So some “grunt” for ram and CPU is… suggested. Both on client and server.
This is what I found when using it in my business for my main email server. The reason I switch away from it was I needed my server to do more. So I moved to Zentyal. Than found NethServer I moved to later. Because I found NethServer to be superior in my opinion and the community to be very active.
Yes. This is why I was originally asking if it could be used on NethServer. I still think it would be a wonderful addition to NethServer. It is a solid, mature, and secure.
I think by adding it to be able to use it with NethServer it would see love and grow with new capabilities fast from the others in its community and Neth community.
Talk at ya’ll later
-SF-
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Well, I never got an answer from IGnatius. But I went back to Citadel site and notice he now has a page that shows how to install and run Citadel in a docker container.
Installing and running Citadel using the Docker container
https://www.citadel.org/docker.html
So I figured I would place this here to continue the conversation. I also sent IGnatius a message with a link to this post. Maybe he will check it out and answer some questions and join the conversation.
Thanks,
-SF-
Hello everyone. Citadel lead developer here. I’d love it if we had the opportunity to work together, since it seems we have a lot of the same goals around self sufficient and easy hosting.
Citadel does indeed run easily in a Docker container now. It also accepts external authentication (LDAP) should you want it to integrate into a larger system.
We’re also in the process of overhauling its user interface into a more modern client-side framework with REST/DAV behind it, so there are plenty of integration opportunities there as well.
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I would like to be the first to welcome you back to the Nethserver Community. Happy to see you came over to help answer questions about Citadel and share your insight. I am excited to see what comes from this dialog.
-SF-
And welcome (again) to the NethServer community!
I second @Shadowfire in welcoming you back, especially, after test-driving a container version of Citadel as a VM on my Proxmox, I do like certain features and programming put into Citadel.
I actually recall using Citadel in the long long past (only as client), but forgotten completly about it.
My 2 cents
Andy
HEllo @IGnatiusTFoobar its wonderful when a lead developer of a project in Question is available on the community to answer and assist on the project. Welcome
In relation to citadel as a Module, @stephdl is at the moment our modules champion, and did a great Job mentoring me into module development, mAybe he could tip you on one or two.
With regards to Deeper integration i think @davidep from the @dev_team would be better placed on this.
IS it possible for you to share a docker compose file for Citadel this would help understand the inner working of the services required for the Module.
Following the docker run instructions from the link posted,
is it possible to make use of these instructions here: NS8-Generic Containers-: Install Uptime-kuma - Howto - NethServer Community
To make citadel working or installed on NS8.
All Modules BEgin with this: NethServer/ns8-kickstart: NethServer 8 module template (github.com)
You might want to take a look at this module here: NethServer/ns8-mail: NS8 Mail module with SMTP, IMAP, Spam/Virus filter (github.com)
as well as this: NethServer/ns8-webtop (github.com)
they would properly give you an idea onto How Modules, of similar nature to citadel would work.
Sometimes we use existing docker images, sometime we build a new image from the module, directly from source, Depends on complexities required to handle the installation
from some previous discussions her eon the forum, its not possible to have 2 mail instances running on the same Node, My presumption is that, with citadel a a module, a user would again not be using the NS mail module implementation.
Since citadel has its own packages for handling mail, HWo know, Maybe similar to how the mail module is implemented, it could be seprated from the instance, and then other Mail interfaces like Sogo or webtop could take advanage of the same.
this is way beyond my scope of knowledge
Here are the Dev manuals Home | NS8 dev manual (nethserver.github.io)
Hopefully the given information would help you try to mirror what could be possible of a citadel module(app) for NS8
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Welcome you already received a lot of info, feel free to ask if you need help with your NethServer App.
Oh our module champion!!!
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So some time has passed and I am insterested if @oneitonitram or anyone else from NethDev has been able to review Citadel and see it usefulness? Also have you reached out to @IGnatiusTFoobar to continue dialog on Citadel and making it a permanent software center resident of NS7 and NS8 software center?
I believe @IGnatiusTFoobar said he would be glad to collaborate with NethDev’s.
If you think about it, it seems like a no brainier.
For NS8 It means that email and groupware is available in one docker for NS8 alone. For NS7 it means the email and groupware is available in one package alone.
(I could be over simplifying it, but you know what I mean)
This also means every system that is running Citadel, could possibly remove MTA, IMAP, and anything covered by Citadel. (I am sure @IGnatiusTFoobar can help with this) Because now it is completely handled by Citadel. Less processes, memory, HDD space and such??? Worth knowing.
@IGnatiusTFoobar said he would help, he is the lead developer, who could easily work on making sure the package and docker works for NS7 and NS8 with some help from dev at times when needed.
The package would be self contained and the docker instructions are already done for you by @IGnatiusTFoobar, he has done most if not all the work for you so far - did I mention he is the lead developer 
. Only thing left is to make the necessary tweaks for NS 8 and NS 7.
I would be interested to see how well NS7 and NS8 would benefit and compare with Citadel as opposed to Webtop 5, SOGO, and NextCloud as an alternative package that users can go with on their NS7 and NS8 installs.
Thoughts?
-SF-
Hello @Shadowfire as with regards to NS7. I don’t think anything will materialize. Since EOL is approaching.
As for NS8 @IGnatiusTFoobar has been silent overall on the issue.
Well, if NS7 is out. What about it working in NS8.
If I understood correctly, the offering was to provide help integrating Citadel into NS8, not for Ignatius to create a ns8-citadel from scratch.
That is, for a developer with some knowledge on the inner workings of NS8 modules (be it from NS8 official team or not) to take the reins to start a ns8-citadel app and for Ignatius to help him/her along the way. The former knowing NS8 the latter knowing Citadel, and both finding common ways in Docker space.
So first requirement is to know if there’s interest from the community / NS8 users; second requirement, a developer willing to work on it.
At the moment, I believe it is not the right timing for official NS8 team developers to work on it, as they have to concentrate efforts in refining NS8 / taking care of the new born.
Personally, if Citadel includes the SMTP/POP/IMAP servers as well as the mail client, I’d consider it a no-go, unless it’s possible to have the client without the servers. NS8 already has a mail stack consisting of solid, proven software; I don’t see any reason to replace it with another one. And if it’s the case that the servers and the web-facing client are inseparably linked, that would mean that installing the Citadel servers must necessarily mean you’re installing that webmail client, whether or not you want it.
There would have to be very compelling benefits to the Citadel mail server software for me to consider it a good idea. For whatever my opinion’s worth.
I think the mail setver can go independent to the client, but I am not sure the reverse is true.
I do see the value of Citadel, especially with it NOT using postfix, dovecot and such.
Due to the age of Citadel, it does suffice my requirements on stable software.
As a matter of fact, Citadel (1980) itself is about 20 years older than Postfix (1998) and Dovecot (2002)!
Second, Citadel will never suffer from version conflicts, as is theoretically possible with the software mix NS uses at present. Normally, Postfix & Dovecot are more or less in sync, but that isn’t guranteed or set in stone!
One use coming to mind is a mail backup, which would have no issues with eg a postfix hack or such.
Imapsync or SMTP forwarding would be solutions to go along.
It can use LDAP / AD or it’s own internal auth, that would be fine for me.
If not as a NS8 module, I can still run it as a stand alone container on Debian…
But as a NS8 module, I would be available for testing…
My 2 cents
Andy
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If I understood correctly, the offering was to provide help integrating Citadel into NS8, not for Ignatius to create a ns8-citadel from scratch.
I meaning a module for NS8.
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Besides NS8 as orchestrator, everything in NS8 is a module…
Can’t be misunderstood as such!