The Trouble In Calendars

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13

yes nextcloud and SOGo run their own caldav/cardav server, webtop is a client IIRC. Theoretically you could have one centralised server and others act as clients, but due to the human factor, you can be sure that it won’t never work.

Maybe the best way is to use one caldav/cardav and disable all others, either internally or by disabling the apache web folder (caldav/cardav is not more than a web folder where we download/push information)

Just to continue a jackass mode (sorry for my previous comment) I saw today that dolibarr gets also a calendar/contact area

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anyone at @webtop_team who can be able to share with us, the best possible way to share nextcloud and webtop calendar as a two-way sync. where anything added to nextcloud calendar, is automatically available in webtop, as well as anything saves in webtop calendar is available in nextcloud

Inside webtop, there are times someone receives an email, with calendar content. if you select add to calendar its added to webtop calendar. but now, because you did not select which calendar to save int, it does not appear in nextcloud. Similar problem is there in nextcloud.

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No, WebTop is mainly a CalDAV server, not a client.
It also has the possibility to synchronize external CalDAV resources, but they will be readonly and synchronized with a timer that will rebuild from scratch.
Don’t know if SOGo or NextCloud can act as CalDAV clients.

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i tried using nextcloud as a client’s only, but it seems its not possible, it can only create its own calendar.

The Bigger challenge i was facing was the fact that, i was not able to get webtop calendar to receive nextcloud calendar, and was also not able to configure webtop calendar to be visible on either MS outlook, or windows 10 calendar app.

if those were possible, then my problem would be fixed. and i will write a very wonder instruction on how to unify calendars, based on the stress i have experienced, and the multiple issues i have faced so far, and how i was able to resolve.

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Does anyone know if there is an open source self hosted solutin like any.do calendly
i would like to try something.

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I have been through this deliberation myself, as I hinted in my own thread Sogo vs WebTop (for contacts, calendar etc with DAV)

In an ideal world there would be a best-of-breed in each category which would be standards-based and also open enough to integrate with other systems based on standards. Any in fact there are a number of platforms which exist which we could probably use together well enough to have an integrated set of tools. But then we add another requirement and suddenly find that a platform which satisfies that very well drags along a bunch of other things which cause duplication and then the discussion here arises.

I was thinking along the lines of setting myself up a NethServer with SOGo and Postfix+Dovecot (or whatever) and Roundcube and FreePBX (or, now, maybe a FreePBX or alternative alongside it, based on a comment made in FreePBX usability) and using NethServer’s own DAV and Samba for file access. NethServer bring together a bunch of services which are good at one or two things and wires them together. And thereby I’d have good solutions for calendar and contacts and mail which are well integrated with one another and also shared storage. And they’re standards-based so I have a whole selection of clients on desktop and mobile.

But if I want a nice capable web-storage front end then that seems to be NextCloud (OR WebTop, or AND WebTop) and that’s a whole groupware (or two) which drags in duplication and then these questions start.

I dare suggest that if only there were good stand-alone solutions (but ones which are open to deep integration) for all these functions, it would be much easier to solve this problem. It starts from the fact that NextCloud and WebTop and so on, having been built specifically to integrate, and also to add on functionality beyond the standards, prefer working with themselves, and are not completely modular and therefore don’t make it easy to stop using part of them and plug something else in instead. (long sentence, sorry)

This is similar to the inner-platform effect. Each of us could build our own groupware with whatever functionality we want and we’d have to deal with all the details. We’re talking about wanting to create something modular, but we have to use standards to tie the parts together, and then we have to put so much work into just making sure that all the integrations work… Rather than just solving the original problem we just make a new toolkit for the problem, easier to use but with less flexibility than the original tools. Most of those groupwares out there aren’t written from scratch - they solved much of the problem by just choosing one existing tool for each function and hardwiring everything together. Now we like what they did but we wish that we could unplug the bits from one another :slight_smile:

I’m sure I’ve stated the obvious but thought it might help to state it…

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@ylavi
@oneitonitram

Hi

NethServer does offer three different Groupware packets, and all three AFAIK do not use the standard CalDAV or CrdDAV “referential” servers in their code, but rather re-implemented them, using their own code or adapted from somewhere else.

There is plenty of overlap, it IS a bit like comparing Browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Safari or whatever). If it’s not a plug-in, it’s almost impossible to “transfer” a feature from one browser to another. And not all are open source.

So it basically comes down to a choice - your favorite browser. You may have more than one, but the mainly used one.

Same for Groupware, you need to choose…

I mean, it’s NOT impossible to say create a cron script to sync the database entries for calenders between WebTop and NextCloud, the same would work for Adressbooks. BUT: Sharing would need to be reconfigured on the “other” platform, or adapted again with a script, on the fly.
And this could break with updates on either side - a real headache!

20 years ago, I actually wrote a programm, using a database (access/mysql) to Sync Groupware data between platforms. It covered: MS Outlook, Novell Groupwise, Lotus Organizer and Psion Organizer… It worked, but supporting it - even if only for myself - was a headache and not worth it!

That’s when I started looking for alternatives, I didn’t want to go the Exchange route anymore…

My choice has been NextCloud, for several years now. Before that OwnCloud…
I like the fact that almost any CalDAV or CrdDAV client will work, on several platforms.

I grab my calender and public holidays and display them on my Home Automation:

Bildschirmfoto 2020-04-24 um 10.30.34
Bildschirmfoto 2020-04-24 um 10.30.34752×558 40.3 KB

My 2 cents
Andy

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@ylavi I would say, i have a much more complicated setup myself, both for me and my organization.

For your case, simple. just use nextcloud and webtop. installa the groupware in nextcloud, set the nextcloud calendar in webtop. you will be able to view the webtop calendar inside webtop, but not to write to it.

Make next cloud your default calendar. Add it to google calendar, and add it to your windows calendar. and bum, you are good to go…

I will at a later stage write a tutorial on some of these aspects based on my findings, at the moment, i am still in the process of research.

If you need on point assistance @ylavi i can help you get everything integrated exactly as you would.
For my case, it a different ball game alltogether. and i do not want to spend tons of money to achieve what i want using paid solutions.

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Hello Everyone.

My research is almost complete.

So far the only trouble i have is with webtop.
@webtop_team i need support and assistance on this matter.
I have not been able so far, to figure out a way to synchronize webtop calendar with anything else.

  1. Not able to synchronize with nextcloud.
  2. Not able to synchronize with google calendar
  3. Not Able to synchronize with windows calendar
  4. Not able to synchronize with outlook calendar.

Does anyone here know how i can achieve any of these options.

I came accross this nice tool https://caldavsynchronizer.org/
on the options i do not see webtop listed, though sogo and nextcloud are listed, among with other calendars.

Could @webtop_team reach out to them and have a conversation so that webtop is also included. A huge number of all other major mail systems are listed.

I will later on write a detailed instruction and tutorial on my finding, after which i will invite all other members towards the development of an open source project to solve this calendar problem. Based on my findings.

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If it’s a calDAV server you’ve chance to synchronize it in read-only mode

Yes, in read-only mode

You can use that plugin by configuring webtop as a generic server.

Keep in mind that the management of CalDAV/CardDAV on Outlook is practically unusable, with all the good will of the programmers of that plugin.

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I am confused with this statement.

Generally speaking. I have been doing two way sync so far with nextcloud and outlook with the said plugin.

what do you mean by practically unusable

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if it works for you, good.
In my tests I found outlook blocks, synchronization errors, biblical times to finish synchronizations.

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just to raise this topic up and also brainstorm on the same issues, i know alot has changed since the pandemic and there are very many options to actually get things done, here is a nice calendar booking tool i came across.

it is an open source solution that offers a calendly alternative but self hosted. maybe we can also adopt it for install in NENthserver.

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@oneitonitram

Hi

There are already three working calendar solutions on NethServer (Nextcloud, WebTop, SoGo).
Why would anyone want another calendar?

And this one isn’t a real calendar, it’s ONLY an appointment booking app…

However, if you have use for something like this, try installing it and see if you can get it working.
The next step would be to write a how-to…

My 2 cents
Andy

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What I’d like is a “calendar server” that WebTop, Nextcloud, SoGo, Thunderbird, etc. could all connect to–something that would work like IMAP, but for the calendar. I don’t think there’s any such thing at this point, though.

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@danb35

I quite agree, a centralized “calendar” service would be nice. The “protocoll” would - most likely - be CalDAV, which works for all three products on NethServer and numerous, independent clients like Thunderbird.

Actually, all three products in Neth can cover the Server side of things, only are somewhat limited (or VERY limited) when acting as client… Nextcloud has an independent Mail client, why not adapt the (quite usable) Web GUI as independant CalDAV client?

My 2 cents
Andy

2 Likes
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I haven’t looked into it much but i did come across bedework

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that seems interesting, question is does it play well working.with other calendear server, like nextcloud. would it work well with say, webtop, and others. maybe we can try to isntall it on nethserver and test. if it wont break thing, since am scared of java…

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@oneitonitram

Hi Martin

NO calendar Server will play well with another Calendar Server - both provide the same service.
Additionally, both are servers. They’re NOT “clients”, although Nextcloud includes a Web client for their server.

They’re NOT intended to sync eg with Google Android Calendar or any other. A Calendar Server provides a service any cpable client can connect to.

What’s wrong simply using Nextcloud? It works, any client can connect and sync…

I’ve decided a few years ago to use Nextcloud for Calendaring and Adressbooks, for me and my clients - and have not had reason to regret this…

Why reinvent the wheel…

My 2 cents
Andy

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that works, and yes, Nextcloud works very well as a complete calendar tool.
unfortunately, most systems dont play well with caldav. and alo, when meeting links and multiple other things are sent, they create a calenda event meant for either google calenda or for outlook.

Most calenda booking engines, like calendly dont really suppport caldav. unless they began.

there was a time i came accross calendly alternative that charges fixed rice, and supported caldav, i forgot the name ad been trying to find it back, i had share with you the same.

but overall, if you use calenda booking apps, good luck integrating with nextcloud, for most.

Nowadays we make use of myriads of software and tools which have some form of calenda or another, the headache is making sure all these tools, somehow are aggregated into a single calenda dashboard. inclusing ERP, CRM systems, calenda booking systems, even softwares like jitsi and zoom.

The mail app inside nextcloud is not full featured enough for a number of situations, so one may be forced to use another interface, like webtop or sogo. but when this happens, calendar events there ar enot synced to nextcloud, unless there is aothermedium of getting this done.

So, yeah, calendar can be a pain and headache. i did manage to link nextcloud to windows, and have two way sync. which meant even google events were added to windows calenda and its cool, but for those, if you go to nextcloud, nada