How involve more developers?

[robb (Rob Bosch)]

Since I am more familiar with the ubuntu community than the CentOS community, I propose to more or less copy the method used by the ubuntu community. There are several teams, as are with NS. Each team has a certain amount of volunteers that are chosen by the community. There is a x-year mandate for each election and after that, the person can be a candidate again for re-election. The election is like a campain where the candidate must explain why he or she is the best person for the job. Then the community can decide.

For important jobs like managing the community money, there should be a abuse proof set of rules, so no individual member of the treasure comity can spend or take money. All money spent must be transparently documented.

Also legal issues must be met. Can someone be held personally responsible for income or spending community money? What about taxes to be paid? Or if people are getting money from the government because they are (temporarily) without a job, will being part of the treasurey team have impact on their personal income?

Maybe a set of (financial) skills must be met in order to apply for such a job in the community? Maybe this sounds overkill for now, but as soon the community gets bigger, like Fedora or Ubuntu communities, this can be a big responsibility.

To get started, I propose the community team (@alefattorini, @Jim, @vhinzsanchez and me) take this responsibility until all things that are needed are arranged and an election can be held. The main task for the community team in this will be to explore all the legal issues and the set of rules that are needed for a healthy and transparent treasury team.

Please comment on this. Any other ideas?

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

@robb

There is a x-year mandate for each election and after that, the person can be a candidate again for re-election. The election is like a campain where the candidate must explain why he or she is the best person for the job. Then the community can decide.

It looks to me a bit overkill for us, at least at the time. Only to me?

@robb

Also legal issues must be met. Can someone be held personally responsible for income or spending community money? What about taxes to be paid? Or if people are getting money from the government because they are (temporarily) without a job, will being part of the treasurey team have impact on their personal income?

Regarding this Salt looks pretty easy to administrate, do you have any other suggestion?

@robb

To get started, I propose the community team (@alefattorini, @Jim, @vhinzsanchez and me) take this responsibility until all things that are needed are arranged and an election can be held. The main task for the community team in this will be to explore all the legal issues and the set of rules that are needed for a healthy and transparent treasury team.

I can do the job but I’d like to surround myself by trusted and selected/elected people.

@stephdl with boutysource and donations we could address thess goals suggested by you:

• well known developer can be paid to develop a specific module for a company
• a company can sponsor the cost involved to your creation (hardware, server, beers)
• the developer may ask about donations to users, like remi collet does

@stephdl

I would like to share a bit about nethserver-crontabmanager, since it is asked to push it to nethforge. This software needs around 30/40 hours of development and tests for a first shoot, and probably many more for NFR and enhancements. I don’t know what can be the value in money, it depends where you live on the earth, but the standard measure of one week of work is the same everywhere

What do you think to start to raising funds for it creating a bounty? I’m interested in this. When you have raised enough money you can start to develop it, having your expenses covered.
I’m very curious to hear your opinion.

[stephdl (Stéphane de Labrusse)]

@alefattorini

What do you think to start to raising funds for it creating a bounty? I’m interested in this. When you have raised enough money you can start to develop it, having your expenses covered.I’m very curious to hear your opinion.

Certainly that can be great.

[Nas (Artem Fedai)]

@alefattorini

Bounty program for features it is amazing, but it has a lot of the pros and cons.

Frankly speaking, this program will stimulate our internal Dev team and it is one of the major pros, but as for involving newcomer developers it is very controversially.

As for paid features, we have already discussed this point on the forum or in Hangout with @Ctek and others, so bounty for this is appreciated.

As for involving new developers, first of all, we should spread our GitHUB page all over the world and developers should use our product by themselves, they should feel our product and only after that they will contribute.

Somth like that https://github.com/fail2ban/fail2ban/pull/1288, or like our @Ctek, he feels that it is lack of backup module and he made it

First of all, we should improve our Basic functionality like:
Mail (DKIM, transport maps, relay maps and so on), Fax - move to Avantfax or translate existed Fax2web, DNS/DHCP improvements, HTTPD service management.

Next step it is paid features (bounty), we should not put the priority on paid features than on basic functionality because we will drown.

Let me summarize:
We need a manager who will check dev team possibilities for paid features development (@alefattorini ) , all paid features should be completely discussed.

We need a donate button in the community page, this donation will spread for community needs like prizes, t-shirts, and promotions.

This is my point of wiev.

[GG_jr (Gabriel GHEORGHIU)]

@Nas

First of all, we should improve our Basic functionality like: Mail (DKIM, transport maps, relay maps and so on), Fax - move to Avantfax or translate existed Fax2web, DNS/DHCP improvements, HTTPD service management.

@Nas

Next step it is paid features (bounty), we should not put the priority on paid features than on basic functionality because we will drown.

@Nas

We need a manager who will check dev team possibilities for paid features development (@alefattorini ) , all paid features should be completely discussed.

Totally agree.
Else, will be an avalanche of modules/features which may have nothing to do with the basic functionality of NS (UTM, Mail, DC, AD - when Samba4 will be available) and those modules will must be paid (rewarded).

[giacomo (Giacomo Sanchietti)]

@Nas

First of all, we should improve our Basic functionality like:

In my opinion, even extensions of basic core features can be part of a bounty.

[stephdl (Stéphane de Labrusse)]

@GG_jr

Else, will be an avalanche of modules/features which may have nothing to do with the basic functionality of NS (UTM, Mail, DC, AD - when Samba4 will be available) and those modules will must be paid (rewarded).

From my own experience, it can be (really) hard to work on core feature…You might lost a lot of valuable developer time…maybe bounties for specific modules could be more appropriate if you want to attract new developers.

[Ctek (Bogdan C)]

Bounties can be for core and specific modules.
Adding a feature to core code can be a bounty that some developers will want to get and others no.

The developers can chose from the bounties available and get them if they want.
We can see how things evolve, after some time. I think is too early to tell what will work and what not.

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

@stephdl

maybe bounties for specific modules could be more appropriate if you want to attract new developers.

@Ctek

We can see how things evolve, after some time. I think is too early to tell what will work and what not.

I agree with both, give it a try and let’s see how things go

[GG_jr (Gabriel GHEORGHIU)]

@Ctek

Bounties can be for core and specific modules.

Perfect.
Should be a list with core packages/modules and with specific modules.
Of course, first should be defined the “core modules” and the “specific modules”.

@Ctek

Adding a feature to core code can be a bounty that some developers will want to get and others no.

Agree.

@Ctek

The developers can chose from the bounties available and get them if they want.

Agree.

@stephdl

From my own experience, it can be (really) hard to work on core feature…

I’m not programmer but I’m sure you’re right.

@stephdl

You might lost a lot of valuable developer time…

IMO, if you don’t have good and stable core modules, that mean a good and stable NS, all specific modules are for nothing. Maybe just to be listed.

@stephdl

maybe bounties for specific modules could be more appropriate if you want to attract new developers.

The developers should be attracted for specific modules or for fix and/or improve core modules? Which is the priority for NS?

Again, I’m totally agree with Nas:

@Nas

First of all, we should improve our Basic functionality like: Mail (DKIM, transport maps, relay maps and so on), Fax - move to Avantfax or translate existed Fax2web, DNS/DHCP improvements, HTTPD service management.

Next step it is paid features (bounty), we should not put the priority on paid features than on basic functionality because we will drown.

[filippo_carletti]

@Nas

DNS/DHCP improvements

Could you please expand this item about DNS/DHCP?

Do you mean this:

Feature #2336: DNS proxy - NethServer 6 - NethServer.org

Or:

Feature #2717: DNS forward - NethServer 6 - NethServer.org

I searched your posts in the forum, but I may have missed this.
Thanks.

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

Thanks guys for your contributions, so how can we make a test-phase with bountysource?
We can start with specific modules opening new issues on github for:

• Web interface for Nethserver-arpwatch: Needs Tests - #29 by Nas
• v2 and Web interface for Nethserver-fail2ban needs testers
• V2 and WebUI for Nethserver-delegation needs testers
• Moodle package Linux goes to school with NethServer - #29 by syntaxerrormmm

@davidep @giacomo any hint?

And opening a salt account for donations? This proposal sounds interesting:

@robb

To get started, I propose the community team (@alefattorini, @Jim, @vhinzsanchez and me) take this responsibility until all things that are needed are arranged and an election can be held.

A NON-dev team takes the responsibility of donations with a main goal: All money spent must be transparently documented.

[davidep (Davide Principi)]

@alefattorini

opening new issues on github

You know, I’m a GitHub lover but we are still testing it on v7 only, so there is a conflict between our aims.

I consider the bountysource affair a +1 for GitHub in the future

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

But we can start creating issues for stuff like these which aren’t already on redmine:

Call for test Stephdl modules

Thanks @EddieA for your feedback, so ddclient is production-ready Thanks dz00t3 for your test, I’d like to move this amazing stuff on the forge What do you think to give more visibility to the forge showing a menu to activate the NethForge directly from the software center!? People check it and see the list of modules from the forge, similar to the list above. /cc @giacomo @davidep @stephdl

And maybe will never be

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

Looks like bountysource it wasn’t the right way to involve or support more developers neither the existing ones.
Am I wrong? I quote my friend @dz00te

@dz00te

yes, ofcourse i agree, but at the same time i have some doubt about the goodness of the “bountysource way” for ns… in other words (and ofcourse i could be wrong), also if i don’t use fail2ban (for now), i think that 40$ for a contrib like this, it is maybe a too small amount to attract other devs to develop and maintain contribs for ns but probably this is another thread…

Should we try different ways? What do you think to look for some different companies that want to pay developers to work also part-time on NethServer? Make sense?

[dz00te]

@alefattorini

Should we try different ways? What do you think to look for some different companies that want to pay developers to work also part-time on NethServer? Make sense?

mhhh sorry… i didn’t understand … could you make an example?

[robb (Rob Bosch)]

I think we do need to head for another way. With bountysource or even paid community modules you end up with a ClearOS clone. I think we shouldn’t want that.

I propose a tutor or mentor program. But this needs a lot of effort from both mentor and junior developer. It also means a serious commitment from them, even though it is voluntary.

Besides that, I think a module would be a LOT more valuable if it is developed by someone who decided that functionality is an absolute must for the NethServer project instead of doing the code for the money.
Coding for money does not feel right to me. Not now anyway, in this stage of the project.

What we do need are volunteers that like to code and want to teach others the ropes. And again, start small and slowly aim higher. Recently we had a great example of starting small: Sambastatus: my first module for nethserver
This kind of initiatives make me REALLY HAPPY!

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

@robb

I propose a tutor or mentor program. But this needs a lot of effort from both mentor and junior developer. It also means a serious commitment from them, even though it is voluntary.

Got your point and I like the idea, how can we make it sustainable? Any thoughts?

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

Times ago @filippo_carletti wrote a good guide on how to setup a NethServer Developer Environment

http://wiki.nethserver.org/doku.php?id=developer:developer_howto&s[]=development

That’s another great example from NextCloud:

Get started with Nextcloud App development in 6 easy steps!

[Jim]

A good actualized guide will certainly be welcome