CentOS Linux to CentOS Stream discussion

While I’m now happy to be one of those who asked to wait before working on NethServer 8, I think that CentOS Stream could be a good opportunity for Red Hat to accept more contributions from projects like NethServer.
And we could benefit from more up-to-date software packages.
It remains to be seen if and how they will accept contributions outside the fields they care about most.

Personally, I’m not particularly afraid of the stability issues that a rolling release could bring.

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But what about the ability and continuity to tailor CentOS to a NethServer instance?
Until now, NethServer is a distribution that is running either on a physical server or virtualized (the latter more and more) but most of the time on premises as an one-fits-all solution.
In the meantime we are looking towards new(er) technologies so we can easily add integrated services to NethServer. Looking at Docker, Ansible and hybrid solutions that combine an on premises server(s) with ‘cloud’/DC based services. And adding private cloud solutions and webservices (Nextcloud Hub, SOGo, Moodle, etc)
Looking at the (professional) userbase and the community, I think these services should stay available with current and future versions of NethServer. And we need to ensure continuity in both these services and in migration from current version to future version(s) of NethServer.
The big question is: will ‘we’ be able to guarantee this towards all Neth users?

Looks like the Fork for CentOS Linux is getting in shape: https://github.com/hpcng/rocky

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Hi Filippo,

I do not share your optimism at all.

I have read all the comments on: https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/.

It’s much more ferocious than when Red Hat made its first mistake when he wanted to charge for its distro during RH-7x time. It had to shut down its blog due to the acid reaction from the community. He came back with a candy: “Fedora”. This time, 2 candies called: STREAM and “free license for developers”. At that time, it was “only” to put a price on a distro. FreeBSD did it more elegantly…

The community never forgets! (It’s on the internet… forever)

This time, it’s a stab in the back by reducing the EOL of C-8 from 2029 to 2021; ask the migrators from C-7 to C-8. It is not like reneging your word but more like “sh … ing” on it ! What will IBM$ make them do next ?

The STREAMING will only be for the “dindons de la farce” who will become BETA TESTERS.

This time, we have to completely change the distro and pick the right one: Debian, OpenSuSe, FreeBSD, or even Ubuntu …

Michel-André

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Hi Rob,

It will be like LIbreOffice with OpenOffice . I wish them all the luck.

But still, it will be based on RedHat which is now run by the money hungry IBM$

Michel-André

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Hi All

I’d strongly advocate a move to a Debian base.

A) They’ve been around among the longest.
B) They provide extremly sleek and stable distros
C) They also have a very good LTS persptive
D) No company behind them, which can negate or be bought.

Ubuntu has the same D problem, and OpenSuse is not really an option…

I also wish the new Centos guys good luck, but we need some real long term options… :slight_smile:

I’d also have no problems with FreeBSD, i’ve been a BSD user for over 25 years now (all three).
Besides which, who doesn’t use OpenSSH, and that comes from the mind of Theo de Raadt, the guy who created OpenBSD…
But as a Proxmox user, I see what a wonderful basis OS they have running there, and I also see this on my Raspberry, it’s also Debian based…

My 2 cents
Andy

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New here, but I would strongly agree with Andy to consider Debian and unchain nethserver from the whim and changing desires of corporate control.

Nethserver is at a cross roads and already asking for direction regarding Centos so this is the perfect time for IBM/redhat to have made obvious their desire to monetize and willingness to break a commitment made on the longevity of Centos 8. Even if they backtrack, why should IBM/redhat be trusted on this going forward.

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To add to my first comment, going with another fork RHEL will have issues as well. Even the one by the Centos founder who I’m sure has the best intentions in the short and long-term but it’s not a 1 or even 3 person job to Reestablish Centos and maintain it for another 10 years with constant and high-quality/stable updates. Maybe if he merges with something like Springdale Linux and time, resources and brain power is more collaborative. I hope it works out, but hope is not something to base nethserver on.

Debian is there. Debian is not owned. Debian is not based on another product. Debian already has the people power, resources and infrastructure to survive and can be trusted to build a product off with multi-year and long-term plans.

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…and would require pretty much a ground-up rewrite of everything that makes Nethserver, Nethserver.

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It’s also the reason the Mint Linux guys created a “backup” strategy based on Debian, instead of Ubuntu. Sure, they still use Ubuntu underneath, but they’re ready, if ever Canonical or whoever owns them pulls the plug.

My 2 cents
Andy

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Yes, it would. So not a decision to be made lightly. My inconsequential vote would be not to base nethserver 8 on the hope ibm/redhat won’t pull the rug out from under you again in the near future.

Macbeth: ‘If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well / It were done quickly’

Hi Andreas,

I absolutely second this choice !

Michel-André

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Remember, CentOS was originally a community project (that’s what the C stands for), so I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that it could become one again–but I don’t expect it to happen immediately. But even if there is a suitable “community-produced downstream of RHEL” distro, we still need to deal with RHEL’s move in a direction that doesn’t seem very compatible with what Neth needs.

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Hi, the question is: what will be the future of “NethServer”???

Yes, this is right, but at this time CentOS 7 is supported till June 2024, so there is a little bit time to convert the base. Only problem I see are missing features at Nethserver 7 like IP v6.

Like others say, “Can we trust RedHat/IBM”? Perhaps one day they decide, from one day to another, only to sell their products. Best example is Java, much products don’t work with the open version and a lot of companies had to by a license for every client.

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Well I need some years before to rely on it :wink:

Like ever never mix free software and free beer…everything has a cost

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@michelandre I second your opinion here. And sorry @filippo_carletti I just can’t agree with you here. CentOS is going to be turned from a stable rebuild of RHEL to an unstable testingarea of RHEL. That is a HUGE difference and not something to build a reliable distribution on.
If we all want to have a stable NethServer, like we are used to now, it is time to look for alternatives, unless IBM/RH reconsiders and reinstates CentOS 8 support untill 2029 as it was before 8 december 2020.
Then still we will have to consider what will be next after CentOS8/NS8 (but that is a ‘problem’ for over 8 years or so…)
Maybe the new RHEL fork or Springdale should be a serious consideration for the next big update.

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…and then the question is whether we can trust RH/IBM to hold to this, after they’ve already demonstrated their willingness to repudiate their commitments.

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Just put a susbcritpion like NethServer… and make people work.

this meets the point of @filippo_carletti

Wow, @stephdl quotes a Microsoft employee (something something @ Microsoft something) about the future of Centos - and by an extended measure NethServer… :wink:

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