Template/role base setup wizard after the installer wizard


(Alessio Fattorini) #1

Continuing the discussion from Community Hangout on 15th July:

Like very much this proposal, it would be a great step towards a simplification of the first configuration for newcomers
What do you think @giacomo @davidep @filippo_carletti ?

Come one with this mock up!


Community Digest 4 - July 2015
NethServer 6.7 rc1 ready for testing
Getting started discussions
(Bogdan Costin) #2

Hi Alessio, I’ll try to compile something that will give you a ideea but it wil take some time since i have been overwhelmed by work this past few days.
Be assured that i did not forget :smile:.

Best regards
Bogdan


(Alessio Fattorini) #3

Great! Looking forward to your stuff! :smiley:
Anyone else on this?


(Giacomo Sanchietti) #4

I really like the idea :smile:


(Stefano) #5

my humble and debatable opinion: whoever installs a server should know what he’s doing…
giving a sysadm a click click done interface means that even a stupid monkey can configure a server.

is it really what we want/need?


(Alessio Fattorini) #6

@ctek and @Nas what do you think about that opinion?


(Bogdan Costin) #7

Hi Stefano,
Knowing what you do or want to do, has very little to do with how easy the tool you use.
If you have no ideea on what the process is all about, it will help you a little, but it will not replace your lack of knowledge.

Is like saying that to be a real driver you should still drive a 1920 car.

And i my opinion there is nothing wrong with making your life easy.
If noobs can configure a NS server then they will seek more information on what they want to do next.
Or they will start exploring the rest of the options that NS will provide.

Hiding the “power” behind a complicated setup or no setup, and only a few people that can manage the install, does not improve your skills. It only means that you have learned that system and that’s about it.
(low adoption rate because of the difficult learning curve)

And honestly, completing a first step wizard does not mean that you have configured a server. :wink:

Best regards
Bogdan


(Stefano) #8

I would agree with you, but in my experience the “next next next done” approach is always a failure…
I’m quite sure that such an approach is usefull for a skilled user too (easy tool) that knows what it’s going on behind the scene…

but there are “common users too”… how many web servers with wrong permissions did you see during your life?

the point is that as long as your (generally speaking) server is inside your lan and is not reachable from wan and doesn’t connect to wan itself, you’re free to do everything as you prefern, even without knowing anything about web, mail, spam and so on…

in the moment you connect your server to WAN, your server could be a problem of mine, 'cause an hacked server (and with hacked I refer to web applications, not the server itself, that is very, very hard to hack) becomes a enemy for me, you, everybody… and, if you work daily with spam or phishing you’d know what I mean…

NS is easy to setup… install it as a bare system, configure it…
then add what you need (and to choose what you need you have to know, what you need), install the packages (and you have a user friendly UI to do so, so a very easy operation indeed) and configure them… you’re done…

so, in the end, since is ALREADY so easy, why do you (generally speaking) need anything that make it easier?

finally, knowing what you’re doing is necessary NOT when you setup a server, but when you have to debug a problem… and if you take a look on windoze side, the “next next next done” approach has made so many damages that no one here can imagine.


(Bogdan Costin) #9

Hi Stefano,
You are right in the sense that click-ing without knowing will make a mess of things.
But let’s not forget that this is a simple step wizard that will present the user the option to configure the server in the correct way from the start.

“NS is easy to setup… install it as a bare system, configure it…”

Configure it … Starting with ??? Users ? or Groups ?
Or with ownClowd … but wait I do not have Networking set up… and also DNS is not set up…
I’ve set up the “Domain” but it does not work… hm… what is missing ?

This is what I’m speaking about. Easy initial configuration.

And “knowing what you’re doing is necessary NOT when you setup a server, but when you have to debug a problem…”. In my opinion you always have to know what you are doing in a server.
If you have little experience you can try and experiment, but with a little help it is even better.

I know that many users do not read the manual (RTFM anyone ? :smile: ) so that does not mean that we should let them without any help.

I’ve told you above, You are right in some points and I agree with you that there are many issues. But that does not mean that we should leave the way they are.

Even without a “wizard” to help new users, You can mess up big time right from the start :smiley:
So why are you so reluctant in giving some help to new users ?

You do know that they will not start to learn linux now, just because we told them that they must know what they are doing :smile:

Best regards
Bogdan


(Gabriel GHEORGHIU) #10

Hi all,

If you don’t mind that I interfered, I think there are two steps here:

  1. Install the roles and maybe “even a stupid monkey can”.
  2. Configure the installed roles and maybe never ever “even a stupid monkey can configure a server”.

Kind regards,
Gabriel


(Bogdan Costin) #11

Hi I want you to see just a proof of concept.
Please let me know what do you think about this.
PS if the server does not display or takes a long time to load the page hit refresh (DNS issues :smile: )

http://asobi.sensitiveconnections.ro/

Best regards
Bogdan


(Gabriel GHEORGHIU) #12

Hi Bogdan,

Good job!
I think it’s very useful even for advanced users not only for beginners.

Gabriel


(Alessio Fattorini) #13

Uh your idea has deserved a like from @filippo_carletti too, very rare friend :+1:


(Bogdan Costin) #14

Thank you guys, :smile: I hope it will be usefull


(Jose "Martin" Abeleira. AKA Marto) #15

Loved it, i think the easy of use and presentation was the key to ubuntu’s
rise for example.


Community Digest 5 - September 2015
#16

So, what’s needed is a wizard such that even a stupid monkey couldn’t screw it up.

Like, you know, installing collectd-web before installing samba.

Who woulda thought you’d need to install samba to serve html asks a stupid monnnkay? :slight_smile:


What quote better describes NethServer?
(Davide Principi) #17

Hi @ctek, I’d love improving the actual First configuration Wizard in the way described here for the 6.7 Final release.

However I’m concerned about the network setup. Anaconda leaves us a working system in two cases:

  • unattended install, where the server received its network configuration from an already existing DHCP server
  • interactive install, where the admin set up the green interface with a gateway

If the admin is installing a Firewall/Gateway probably the network does not work, because the red interface is unconfigured. We must find a way to support this scenario.

My proposal is adding an optional step, let’s name it red configuration. If the Internet is still not reachable after that step, no additional software can be installed and the wizard exits.


(Alessio Fattorini) #18

Sounds good for me


(Bogdan Costin) #19

Yes we can add a check to see if internet is reachable and then present the option.
Otherwise a warning to be displayed “Attention No access to internet!”.


(Alessio Fattorini) #20

Why not? Could we write down a v1 for this wizard which describe what’s in scope for our initial go at this and what maybe will be done later?