NS8 is not a server.
Like all of us, you’re free to your opinion. I have over 200 users who agree it’s a stable server…
However, it’s not (yet) up to par in my opinion…
Anything can be a Server, even Windows 10!
It just depends how the system is used.
Although using Win10 as a server isn’t the wisest decision nor a secure one…
My 2 cents
Andy
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As we know today, Rome was not built in a single day.
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No, they are still building in Rome! Ask the locals, travel the roads there, plenty of building still going on.
Any present day city, town or even village is always being built, renovated, etc. Else the place is dead, or nearly there.
See Pompei - since the Vesuv eruption, the (more or less) only thing built is the cashiers house and restaurant for the tourists…
Pompei is known as a dead town.
But just building alone doesn’t cut it - remember Berlin Airport?
It has to be operational fairly fast!
Leipzig-Halle was more or less started at the same time, and more or less finished on time.
The basic Layout resembles BER (International Aviation Shorthand for Berlin Airport) very much: 2 parallel runways, ICE main line in the middle with airport buildings.
Germans CAN do it, if they want to!
My 2 cents
Andy
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Unfortunately, they haven’t wanted to do that lately.
I don’t think it’s the “germans” fault. But Germany also have politicians, some more, most less capable!
My 2 cents
Andy
Indirectly, yes. How did the new conglomerate of incompetents get to the point where they have at least concluded their exploratory talks? By voting. But that’s a different topic and out of place here.
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My immediate response is, “nonsense.” In what way do you define “server” such that NS8 doesn’t fit that definition?
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I think it’s about that NS8 isn’t a server OS like NS7 was.
From: https://www.nethserver.org/
" Multi-node application platform
for your Hybrid Cloud
Run your apps everywhere"
IMO this is correct. “Multi-node application platform for your Hybrid Cloud”. That’s it.
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There’s also a good definition in the manual IMO: Introduction — NS8 documentation
…and that isn’t a server? In what universe?
If that’s the argument, it’s silly:
- No reasonable definition of “server” is limited to only a pre-packaged OS, and
- if that is the definition, then NS7 is no more a server than is NS8–both are a collection of packages and configurations that are installed on top of a base OS. Both are/were distributed as a single ISO, but both can/could also be installed by running an installation script on top of a base operating system.
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Sorry for being unclear.
You are right: Nethserver 8 is an application server so it’s a server.
Wikipedia: Server (computing) - Wikipedia
“server operating system” was introduced by Microsoft for their Windows server products AFAIK.
That’s an interesting view, I always saw them as much more different.
But NS7 was bound to a distro and configured network and system packages whereas NS8 is (more) distro-agnostic and configures the services in containers running on top of the system. So NS8 is more an application server now than a distro IMO.
Just to be clear, my objection is to @schulzstefan’s view that NS8 is not a server. You suggested a possible understanding of that statement “that NS8 isn’t a server OS like NS7 was,” and I do disagree with that as I mentioned. It’s true that they work quite differently, but both are, at the end of the day, a set of packages that are installed on top of someone else’s base OS. NS8 is more flexible in that regard–NS7 had to be installed on CentOS 7, while NS8 can go on Rocky/Alma 9 or Debian 12 (and it probably wouldn’t be difficult to put it on a different EL9-based distro). But Nethesis aren’t coding the underlying OS in either case.
Now, a later comment suggests some difference between a “server” and an “application platform.” Again, I have to ask what that difference is. I mean, yes, I recognize that “application platform” is something narrower than a server, but I can’t see any reasonable definition of “server” that wouldn’t include an “application platform for your Hybrid Cloud.”
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There might be a difference between the wikipedia definition of a server, and what I do understand of a server. Out of my experiance stability and control is the most valuable thing for a sysadmin choosing, maintaining and running a server.
IMO in NS7 there were less potential influences. With NS8, out of the choosen model, there are lot more potential bugs. I don’t like to call this a (classical) server. Orchestrator is pretty good. With all pros and cons. More cons for me…
Fair enough, but that isn’t definitional of a server. Words mean things. “Ultimate stability” isn’t part of the definition of a server, nor is “total control.”
And I’d wager that there are limits to your perceived need for control, too. After all, you aren’t running a server you wrote yourself in machine language on bare metal. You aren’t running Linux from Scratch. You aren’t even running basic CentOS/Rocky/Debian. With NS7, you’re running something built on top of CentOS 7 which makes configuration a lot easier (for the things it’s designed to handle), but does so by greatly limiting your control of it (and those two are almost always in opposition to each other).
NS8 isn’t fundamentally different in this regard. Yes, it’s different in terms of how it does it, but you still give up control to get ease of use.
…and particularly when your concern is based on nothing more than “potential.”
Probably not. But aren’t this exactly the characteristics a sysadmin is seeking for a server. Not?
Is there a LTS version of NS8? What would that be? The underlying OS, the core, podman, the containers? Can NS8 be safely called as LTS server? Does LTS still make sense for a server? Do I overlook something?
Good point - as I do not use NS8 I can only read this forum and github. Besides out of curiousity googling i.e. “NS8 problems” and trying to figure out, are there glitches (bugs) because the (new) architecture of NS8? Have there been similar problems in the past with the old server structures? Are there new problems because of the archticture? Maybe because of lacking knowledge? Is NS8 more complicated to setup and maintain for a SME part time admin? Do I have (or had) this kind of problems in my IT? Do I have (or had) similar problems or bugs with my old servers (different OSes, always LTS) while installing or upgrading?
A lot depends on the use case, of course. Everybody has different needs of an IT.
AFAIK NS8 was released as stable in februar 2024. Good progress so far. If NS8 is good for your needs, use it in your production environment. Call it whatever you want. I think I made myself clear.