OK a simple question or two in preparation to new setup

I am running the NS and webmin on the same machine now.
and I have run it with Proxmox as well.

unless you try to manage the same resources from both it is ok.

I mean if there is something you can do from both UIs, than do it from the primary one.
i.e. NS can manage network ok. so anything I can do from the NS UI I should do there.
now I should not manage network from Webmin, but I can use it to edit config files as it is easier than using vi or nano. at least for me. basic editing is fine but I do not know vi or nano well enough for more complex editing, like cut and paste etc.

could you please make an example of files you need to manually edit?

I agree with Stephdl: webmin in NS is dangerous and should not be installed

I know what you mean :slight_smile:

@vl1969 NS works with a template system , you cannot edit files directly because your changes will be lost

so, when someone here says "oh you need to edit this or this in CLI"
it’s ok ?
NS does not have control over all the system features, you simply can not manage the whole OS from with in NS. ther left out options are either use CLI or a supplementary GUI.
granted, the second UI should not be used arbitrary and without caution,
if you are careful ,and understand what exactly you are doing it might be ok.

as for what file I need to edit, well it can be anything.
example, NS does not support NFS directly.
any and all NFS config had to be done CLI vi or nano.
using webmin helps as it has a file browser built in, and file editor built in.
both support search, and cut/past directly.

or SMART tools. I do not see anything in NS that show support for SMART.
in WebMin I have a GUI output that I can use nicely.

obviously I am not touching any system config files there.

sure

Right, because in this case, NS doesn’t provide a rpm for that, if at the top you see

* **************** DO NOT MODIFY THIS FILE **************** *
 * 
 * Manual changes will be lost when this file is regenerated.
 *
 * Please read the developer's guide, which is available
 * at https://dev.nethesis.it/projects/nethserver/wiki/NethServer
 * original work from http://www.contribs.org/development/
 *
 * Copyright (C) 2013 Nethesis S.r.l. 
 * http://www.nethesis.it - support@nethesis.it
 * 
 * ********************************************************** *

then it is a template system that you cannot modified, it will be rewritten by an event called

the list of event is findable at /etc/e-smith/events

yep, any file like that I keep my hands off :slight_smile:
also I check here for any help on any tools or utilities I might want to add to the system to see if it supported or if I add it to the system it may screw up anything.

but still webmin is very helpful in managing things that NS does not have built in support for.
and I would have the same issue in Proxmox as well.

PS>> I am trying to setup VM in my test NS install. but I am not sure if it is NS issue or because of nested virtualization (I run NS in Hyper-V VM and am trying to run KVM in that setup.) I can not install the OS on my VM.
the whole install runs fine but it gets stack on Installing GRUB/ looking for other OS. 16%.
if all is the same, I may have to do a trial run on a real hardware to test this.

I beg your pardon but you’re doing it wrong :slight_smile:

if you use a simple text editor like nano via putty you can paste and copy all the text
if you don’t feel comfortable with this way, just use filezilla (it works on any O.S.), go to the desired folder/file, right click and “edit”… this will open the file with the internal file editor or, if you prefer, with your favourite editor… when you save the file, you save it directly on the server…

don’t, I repeat don’t mix NS and webmin, it can lead to unpredictable issues, it uses resources, it’s potentially unsecure.

I cannot fully agree with you here for one simple reason,
the filezilla, putty and other such programs need to be installed on the client system.
where if I am running webmin it is all fully web enabled and can/will work on any system without any additional software client except webbrowser.

now if you are telling me not to use webmin with NS, I can say fine, but that might mean that I may not be able or want to use NS for my primary host OS in this case.
I did however see some one here installing Cockpit on NS and not getting as dire warnings as webmin did here. why is that?

putty (or other similar app) works on your smartphone too…
IIRC Steph made a shellinabox module, so you can have your CLI on your web browser too without installing anything (and webmin in first instance)

about cockpit, I suspect you missed the point… cockpit installs and runs fine on NS, but can’t and must not be used… you’d find a post (mine with this account or the expired old one) where I say I spoke with the main dev of cockpit and he said that it’s not the right tool and why.

generally speaking, any tool (web, cli, $whatever) that can edit/modify your server outside NS interface/paradigm is potentially dangerous…

you are obviously free to do as you prefer, but, believe me, you’re searching problems with google maps (if you know what I mean)

I think we are arguing semantics here :slight_smile:

I totally agree with you about this “any tool (web, cli, $whatever) that can edit/modify your server outside NS interface/paradigm is potentially dangerous…”

but, installing webmin on NS is not going to screw things up in itself. neither running webmin alongside NS.

and I am not advocating this setup for everyone.
but if you take some precautions ,and think before jumping in head first. you should be able to safely use both to manage and administer the server.

I would love to find the package that has all the things I need or want. so far I did not found any that have all in one tool.

NS has a great set of tools , but not everything the one needs to fully manage and administer the headless servers in configuration I am trying to achieve. neither Proxmox or ESXi or XenServer. except for NS, the rest of them are great virtualization tools but they luck simple features like local disk administration outside of the system datastore setup.
nowaday and age a local storage config is very needed, but it is absolutely missing from the OS.

NS on the other hand is not a virtualization system, so why is it that it too luck the interface to manage the underlying hardware fully? I can not imagine that managing the disks is more complicated than managing network interfaces or a firewall.

all community modules can be found at http://wiki.nethserver.org/doku.php?id=modules

Well, sure the talk is cheap :), it was asked some time ago, I never started on this, it is a huge work.

Sorry, you’re wrong
Think about a production server with some TB of data and a bug… Bye bye data

“Think about a production server with some TB of data and a bug… Bye bye data”

but that would be true for all management software.
I am not saying it is simple, but if NS is a general server management UI, than it needs to have the ability to manage all aspects of the server. if it is a specialized UI like Firewall or File Server or DC, only, than fine. it is a specialize application and has no business of managing the whole system.
however if that is the case than users need to have other avenues open to manage it.

but again, if it can be a file server it need an ability to manage the underlying data disks. maybe?

Sure, others ‘synologie’ like get it, the best that we can do as community is to find the skilled guy and to pay him to do it or Nethesis might one day get this paid by one of its customers and reverse it to the community side (I have an example with nethserver-freepbx)

in any case, I am not saying that NS is bad, just that it lucks some of the functionality I need/want and I am just trying to find a setup that will work for me.
my goal is to eliminate the need for CLI or at the very least reduce it to minimum. I want to setup my server in mostly set -it and forget-it manner. if I can use NS great, if I have to use Proxmox it’s ok too, I run many tests and it will work.
Ilike CentOS base but Debian will work as well.

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No problem, we are just talking. NS is still a young product, the story started in 2013 by NS6 alpha, right now NS7 stable is there.

Like any young project, it will become what you can bring !

NS aims to be configurable by the GUI but it drives many hours of coding :slight_smile:

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hay, if I could program in Linux , I would offer my services.
I like how it looks and that it works well.
I love that it is CentOS based as well.
and I did not come here and start demanding that this or that be added to NS, or else :stuck_out_tongue:

I am just asking people here if a specific config would work,
if there is a known conflicting modules that would screw up the setup. etc.

if it works, it works, if it is not, maybe I can wait for next release where it is fixed/added or something.

what is frustrating, and it is not directed at NS in particular, is that basically all good interfaces out there are lucking some very important options and most often than none not even planning to add them. I have been trying to find at least one UI like NS that have at least 3/4 of what I want/need or that would offer a supplemental packages to add the functionality.
so far no luck. an NS coupled with webmin is the best setup I can come up with, that has everything I want.

maybe, but it’s potentially dangerous, that’s all

anybody here is free to do anything he wants to his server, even installing a DE…
but, to all future readers, let’s say that your solution is not supported, that should never used and that it’s prone to error…

A community project is not only for developers, hopefully :slight_smile:

You can be involved in the project if :

  • you write documentations
  • you test code of dev (hence proxmox)
  • you offer forum support
  • you do translations
  • you pay beer at the fosdem
  • etc

At the end when you reach all these goals, then the gap to be a developer is really close

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We are on the same page. As you may know, our mission is: To leverage the power of Linux without the complexity

Well said @stephdl ! Take a look also to

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