Characterset for legal notes (mail disclaimer)

Bug
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1

Hi,

I’m using the legal notes for my E-Mail-Server and recognized, that the characterset is not working well.
i.e. the German Umlaute (äüöÄÜÖ) are substituted to the normal characters (auoAUO).
I don’t know if this is also the case for other common characters like áàâçéè (i.e. French), åæ (i.e. Swedish, Dansk, …) etc.
How to investigate or even fix it?

1 Like
2

It’s happening with non-ASCII characters.

If using RoundCube, by default it is set to send messages as simple text, and the disclaimer.txt file content (see /var/lib/nethserver/mail-disclaimers/) has been converted to ASCII:

Workaround 1: Editing /etc/roundcubemail/config.inc.php

// compose html formatted messages by default
// 0 - never, 1 - always, 2 - on reply to HTML message, 3 - on forward or reply to HTML message
$config[‘htmleditor’] = 0; //change it to 1 (html), so the html disclaimer version will be used

Note: might not get applied to email accounts which have been already used. For individual email accounts, the value can be changed from RoundCube’s Settings page (Composing Messages > Compose HTML messages).

Workaround 2: Another workaround could be to manually edit the disclaimer text file with the desired text (changes might be lost with some nethserver event), BUT I guess it’s in ASCII for a reason (some mail clients not supporting other character sets…), so better to wait for a more expert answer. :sweat_smile:

3 Likes
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I think this is the best solution. If a disclaimer text with extended charset is required, go with an HTML message format, so that an HTML disclaimer is attached.

@hunv, does it work for you?

4

Hi,
I think not, because when send from 3rd party devices (i.e. Iphone, other Mailclients) this issue also appears.
So the topic of this thread is not correct because it is not related to Roundcube

5

Topic title Fixed! :wink:

6

I’m afraid the plain text encoding cannot be established without knowing the message… They could not match! We can’t assume anything but basic ASCII.

Perhaps we can configure altermime to always use the HTML attachment…

7

Could UTF8 be a flexible-enough coding?

8

We don’t know what encoding the mail client chooses: ASCII should merge with anything, but it’s not correct itself.

We could always add the text as a separate attachment, though.

A separate attachment can be encoded as we like, and UTF-8 could be the right encoding.

I don’t know if altermime allows this… Who wants to analyze this?

9

An attachment is not enough to fullfil the legal aspect at least in Germany.
The point is not, that you cannot read it, but for a professional company it doesn’t look professional.

1 Like
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Things like legal notes should be added by the mail client in the signature, not by the MTA.
the only way to accomplish your needs it to have a signature…
That said, eventi if mandatory, legale notes are useless :slight_smile:

11

The problem on Client-Based legal notes is, that the users are responsible for it. And if they send from Smartphone, there will be no notes, even if the client on the PC or Roundcube has.
As a CEO of a company that is responsible for this, you have to be sure that a note is in every mail. So a server based signature is the only solution for this.

1 Like
12

I understand your point of view, but every email client even on mobile devices has the possibility to have a signature

IMNSHO, injecting some text in the message after it has been sent from the client is a bad thing because MTA should never modify a message (but the headers)

moreover, even if HTML email are a de facto standard, you can’t expect a MTA to know what html is, so you have 2 choices:

  • add plain text (but you’ll suffer the issue you’re reporting)
  • add an attachment (that can be easily ignored by the recipient)

finally, you can say anything you want in your legal notes (privacy stuff and so on) but they have no legal value… I mean that if I receive a message in error, I can safely ignore the legal stuff and do what I prefer with it (well, I’m aware that it’s a bad thing to do :wink: )

your best bet is to work on human side than on the infra one… inform alla your users to add a signature in their email, from any kind of client (BTW, you’d have some kind of control on which clients… be ready to make suggestions to your customers)… easier to control, to deploy, technically transparent

as usual, my 2c

13

You forget: that are users! I say it again USERS! … with iPhones. They will simply think (at least in my situation) “not my problem”.
The legal stuff in the mails is not like “delete if this is not for you” etc… It is the address of the company, the CEO etc… In General: Everything that has to be in a usual letter also has to be in a mail (situation in Germany).

14

ou contraire mon ami, I know they are users, but as you need a license to drive, you have to be responsible when you use a pc, a phone…

So, if you, CEO, tell to your users to adhere to some rules, they have to do… it’s the way things must work, because (and I’m referring to another post here) if we keep trying to “protect” us on the IT side becuse we don’t trust our users, they will never be pushed to learn, understand, be responsible…

if we create a system where even a stupid monkey can’t do a mistake, users will behave exactly as stupid monkeys… that’s bad…

should us (in europe) become like in the USA where you must write “HOT COFFEE, BE CAREFUL” outside a coffee cup? shouldn’t you, the user (generally speaking), know that you ordered an hot coffee and that’s hot enough to hurt you? (DISCLAIMER: NO OFFENCE INTENDED, just an example)

treat users as stupid and they will be/become/behave as stupid

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The problem is, if it is the CEO that thinks another way and you as his employee have to find a way to implement it.

16

sadly true…

but if you’re the IT manager, you ought have some knowledge, skills and… power…

I mean:

  • show him the plain text signature… put in evidence the bad things
  • show him the html signature… again, show what’s wrong and be extremely clear about you (as email sender) have no kinda of control on HOW the recipients will get and read them… there’s nothing to do on this side… you can work hard to make your emails eye catching, but if my client blocks all the graphic stuff (not embedded but externally linked) or, better, if I set my client to read email in plain text, you are f****d :slight_smile:
  • explain that it’s not a limitation of yours or a lack of willness, but some existing limitations on the technical side you can’t simply override
  • suggest him (with ideas, procedures, howto etc) to use another approach… if he’s the CEO he’ll surely be interested on the economical balance of your work and the final result…

I’d prefer 100 times to have a simple email without a signature (for an error) than a bad looking, unprofessional, email, but that’s my 2c :wink:

1 Like
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To easy to say… the power of being called as “the one which spends a lot of money without make anything work”.
The (l)Users are too many, the Users are too strong… :wink:

18

I disagree…

for example… I suppose you have a dishwasher at home… or a car…

when they need to be fixed, you call a technician or go to the mechanic… I guess you won’t stay aside of the guy telling him how he’s supposed to do the work… you go to/call someone that has knowledge and skills you don’t have… and pay him fot them, and for his work.

now, I think that the main issue in IT management is that almost everyone (and windows has its big responsibility in this matter, with its “click, click, next, next, done” approach) feels that “he knows”… you’ve the guy that call you “hey, fix my pc” and… and tell you HOW you have to fix it…

[side note: I’m a bit against full idiot proof products when we talk about enterprise products, because they will be used by idiots too (and mainly), that ignore some fundamentals facts and rules]

if you permit such a behaviour, you are damaging you and all the people that work in IT…

my boss is whom that pay me, but how the job must be done is an affaire of mine… he must tell me his problem, I’m payed to find a solution (if any)… the solution could be different from what he expect…

finally, remember the simple rule “cheap, well done, done fast… choose 2 of them” :wink:
anyway, my 2c

19

I have to agree with @Hunv,

@Stefano_Zamboni: you talk watching the “Perfect Side of The Technician World” but, come on, there’s a Real World out there that isn’t so perfect. (I’m a Technician too so, I don’t want to offend you:-) )

In the medium/small Italian Company’s one that has the last word is the employee and not the CEO (usually).
We changed a outlook/exchange to one of our Customer with Webtop.
Employees doesn’t want to use the web interface of Webtop but they want still to use Outlook and 38/5000
there is no way to change their minds.
The company management accepts this situation and it fails to impose the change.

With the increase of the email clients (desktop, smartphone, tablets, webmail) it’s become nearly impossible to manage the signature to every of them.
Just think to change a logo or a address…

I think too that it’s becoming essentials a central management of the signatures (for example Exchange already has this feature from a long time: https://www.codetwo.com/exchange-rules-family/ )

I think that the “Attachment signature” looks very unprofessional compared to the signature at the end of the mail body.

We must no forget that all mail (to the technical point of view) should be formatted in pure text but… now all use HTML formatting so we had to “succumb” and accept that.

(all IMHO)

20

I’m aware we’re living in a non perfect world :slight_smile:

this is not an IT issue, but a human one… obviously you can’t expect people to start using a new interface without training, but, believe me (and no offence intended) the issue here is not technical at all…

I’m migrating a customer (about 220 users) from outlook (express…)/windows live mail to sogo… staying IT with the original topic, all signatures are automagically created by the server itself, user will find it ready… with embedded (not attached) logo and styled text…
we’re talking about a municipality… i.e. users are mainly stupid monkeys…
they will be trained and forced… there won’t be any mail client on their pc.

anyway (and finally), we’re talking about an enterprise… i.e. something that should use an unified and centralized communication environment… and so, rules to amend to, full stop :slight_smile: