Disk Management feature request

[Jim]

@alefattorini

Please, don’t cross posting about cockpit there is already a post could you please follow up there?

It’s for you @davidep

[Jim]

@GG_jr

In that post I think Jim is in opposition to that which he required here (The all-in-one concept suggest a sort of melpot, that Netserver doing all at the same time. Something monilitic, a big brick.).

In opposition !:! No,Perhaps you misunderstood something, or didn’t explain so well…
In the other topic, I suggest to change a bit our communication, to stop talking about “all in one”, and talk about modularity.

About the modularity, Nethserver is a file server, can share files, can distribute content with owncloud and other stuff… But we can’t talk about NAS yet,
I suggest this disk managment feature, to make this storage side and managment disk easy, with this module, we would communicate about NAS feature.

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

@GG_jr

I want to begin by apologizing for the next question which would inflame many of you but I sow that even Jim asked

I disagree, it’s an interesting question. Maybe It deserves separate discussion called “What NethServer should be…” What do you think?

[GG_jr (Gabriel GHEORGHIU)]

“Modularity” is much more complex concept than “monolithic”.

[GG_jr (Gabriel GHEORGHIU)]

@alefattorini

Maybe It deserves separate discussion called “What NethServer should be…” What do you think?

Hi Alessio,

I don’t know. It may become redundant. There are many posts regarding that.
But yes, could be interesting.

[Jim]

I don’t If it’s me who is tired… But:

• THis thread is about the disk management feature…

– It’s @davidep who speak about Cockpit

• It’s @GG_jr who speak about all-in-one / modularity when another thread was open today:
  Improve our communication

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

@Jim

I don’t If it’s me who is tired

Right, we have to stay in topic

[WillZen (Stefan)]

@zamboni

well… you’re wrong… as I said, we should always think that NS can be used by everybody… I’ve seen here and in other places (Koozali SME server forums, Centos forums) people using server distro without the minimal knowledge… people that ignore the meaning of netmask, dhcp and so on…I’ve seen people destroying their server via “yum remove”…and the worst part is that they are using servers in REAL and PRODUCTION environment (i.e. real users, real emails, files and so on)

so, I repeat… a WEB GUI should NEVER expose data loss prone features, NEVER…so, no:- disk management/partitioning tools- LVM tools- RAID tools to add/remove disks or change RAID layout

linux is nowadays really user friendly, as long as you know what are you doing… when you fail, linux is a UNIX O.S… we should always remember that.

Finally it is the responsibility of the admin and we shouldn’t restrict it. If someone will do something stupid without inform him self about the consequences he will do it on the CLI as well.
The WARNING with red background is a good solution. If he continue without a second thought than it his fault and not of the software documentation.

I agree with @Jim and the Nethserver slogan. The GUI should have all necessary tools to do the daily work. As mentioned @vhinzsanchez admin with WINDOWS background don’t like to step in to learn the CLI command if they think about to change to a LINUX based server.

[WillZen (Stefan)]

@zamboni

(even) in this forum there are guys that don’t know how their lan works, what is a dhcp and so on… do you really think it’s a smart idea to give them direct access to disk/data? really?

Sorry @zamboni that I didn’t came to this world with this knowledge. I know as many other that we have to learn much more. And this can be done by asking in the forum some simple questions to get help or an hint in the right direction.

[vhinzsanchez]

Hi @WillZen, I never said that Windows admin don’t like to learn the CLI…what I’m pointing out is that these admins are more of a point and click persons (not that not wanting to learn Linux CLI) so proper mitigations/warnings should be put into place should these admins (we ) wrongfully click on the wrong button.

@vhinzsanchez

Note that I, too, am a sysadmin by right and have not much experience in Linux (I can understand some, but mostly through searches and forums, am I able to overcome some difficulties). That said, I also need to add that these are the very reason I am looking for UTM or GUI multi-in-one server.

While we all agree that the feature requested seems to have a point, there is also another, more distrubing consequence should an inexperienced user tried to access and misuse it.

@vhinzsanchez

Should this come into fruitition, I think there should be a warning at the top of the admin GUI Disk Management page (perhaps with a background of red). Also, a warning before proceeding with the task. Just my 2 cents here. It addresses the feature being accessible via GUI and also addresses the danger of using the module by means of very visible warning.

Just clearing things up.

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

@WillZen

. And this can be done by asking in the forum some simple questions to get help or an hint in the right direction.

That’s the right way, please keep it up!

[WillZen (Stefan)]

@vhinzsanchez
Sorry for my free interpretation.
I got many feedbacks about LINUX that you have to use too many times the CLI to do the work and they don’t want to change. It is too much effort.

[davidep (Davide Principi)]

@filippo_carletti

Step 1: look at what’s already available.

I immediately thought about Cockpit, because it’s available on ns7 and I hope it will become our server manager framework in the future.

@Jim

But if I’m well understand, Cockpict is a tool for checking or controlling… Not a configuring tool.

@Jim

• THis thread is about the disk management feature…

The “Create RAID” button is for configuring. I agree, it lacks a lot of functions but we should keep an eye on its progress.

[zamboni (Stefano)]

that’s the right approact to the problem…
no one here had the knowledge inside… everybody has to learn… and you learn trying to things, asking how to do them, try again…

havin a dumb interface to do things once/twice a year doesn’t help you to learn…

[zamboni (Stefano)]

@WillZen

Finally it is the responsibility of the admin and we shouldn’t restrict it. If someone will do something stupid without inform him self about the consequences he will do it on the CLI as well.The WARNING with red background is a good solution. If he continue without a second thought than it his fault and not of the software documentation.

here I disagree…

a community driven distro can’t be a gun in the hands of a newbie…

a web interface is a layer between human an CLI… it’s very usefull in everyday tasks, but, really, how many times do you add/partition/remove a disk on THE SAME SERVER during its life? once? twice? five?
do we really need to invest time to create something that need 3 lines of CLI just to use it 2 times?

I don’t think so…
anyway, since I’m not interested anymore in NS, I think my opinion is not important

[Jim]

@WillZen

Finally it is the responsibility of the admin and we shouldn’t restrict it. If someone will do something stupid without inform him self about the consequences he will do it on the CLI as well.

I’m totally agree… There’s no reason to restrick the user. Everybody has responsibility of its acts.

@zamboni

a community driven distro can’t be a gun in the hands of a newbie…

And A disk Management feature is !!!
Until a home user can play with a graphic windows partition, or a graphic Mac partition… A home user can deal a Synology, a Qnap, a Western Digital NAS without problem…
And a Linux Sysadmin can’t…
Such feature is dangerous in a Linux sysadmin and not in a anybody homeuser hands!!!
Because someone think it’s dangerous or think that the professional sysadmin is a dude !!!

You have really strange though and strange argumentation @zamboni
Stop with your subversives arguments.

This feature is only to enlarge opportunities to spread NethServer.
This feature is to enlarge fields of application for use of Nethserver…

[zamboni (Stefano)]

@Jim

And a Linux Sysadmin can’t…

he rarely (or never) need a gui to format a disk or to create partitions… are we talking about what?

we give a different meaning to “sysadmin”, aren’t we?

NS’ GUI is there to provide an easy interface for everyday tasks…

[Jim]

@zamboni

we give a different meaning to “sysadmin”, aren’t we?

Yes

@zamboni

NS’ GUI is there to provide an easy interface for everyday tasks…

I see NS gui an easy way to configure, to setup the server too

[alefattorini (Alessio Fattorini)]

@zamboni

anyway, since I’m not interested anymore in NS, I think my opinion is not important

I’d like to point out that every opinions are important here, without exceptions

[stephdl (Stéphane de Labrusse)]

@Jim

Until a home user can play with a graphic windows partition, or a graphic Mac partition… A home user can deal a Synology, a Qnap, a Western Digital NAS without problem…And a Linux Sysadmin can’t…

I believe that they sold the software through the hardware, it is one way to fund development…Unfortunately for Linux, it is free as free beer.

More seriously, does someone has started some works on this topic…I have done some search this morning, and it is a huge, a really huge development to do.

For example, these are the engines of the LVM and RAID module of webmin, thankfully in Perl.

webmin/webmin/blob/master/raid/raid-lib.pl

webmin/webmin/blob/master/lvm/lvm-lib.pl

I do admit that the guy who will code these modules, will be my hero for the next 2 centuries…around 2000 lines of code.