Hyperbackup is fairly slow from one syno to another.
I use it mainly for Backup of the whole Synology to the external USB Disk(s).
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Sorry for continuing this thread with other questions, but “Some hints on Proxmox” is ecxactly what I need from you Proxmox Experts.
I’m planning to set up new Nethserver installation for our small office replacing actually windows file server, no AD yet just workgroup.
New Nethserver should be used for Fileserver, central Email server (but simple with POP3-Connector and Smarthost), Nextcloud, and now possible Microsoft SQL Database for some Programs (which was the reason until yet to stay with Windows as fileserver and MSSQL on it).
For Nethserver would be the only one server to satisfy our needs, it could be easily installed on some bare metal machine.
But for better management, snapshots, backups, etc. I’m tented to follow your suggestions to install it under Proxmox, even it would be the only VM there on, but maybe in the future who knows.
I’ve read a lot about Proxmox the last weeks, and understand that it uses or Hardware Raid Controller or ZFS-Raid, and in both cases we had to upgrade our Hardware for Raid Controller or Mainboard with ECC RAM for ZFS work securely.
Do you have any experience or suggestions for using Proxmox on lower end Hardware ?
I’ve found some tutorials about using MDADM Raid with Proxmox, which would sattisfy my needs, but can’t say how risky it would be using it, compared to ZFS without ECC.
So the question is using Proxmox with more expensive High end Hardware (Raid Controller, ECC Ram) or Proxmox on available lower end Hardware (ZFS without ECC or MDADM Raid) or to install Nethserver Bare Metal with MDADM-Raid which was the normal way a few years ago.
Second question is about Nethserver as file server for a large amount of data (more than 8 TB still raising).
Is it advisible to put such a lot data in a virtual disk on Proxmox, or better create smaller VM just for Nethserver OS and Email (<1TB), and put all other stuff on separate physical disc and mount directly to Nethserver VM if possible.
I’ve seen that you prefer to store all data on separate NAS, but not sure if this way can serve data as fast as Nethserver can do with directly attached drives.
Every useful hints are appreciated, thanks.
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I sent you a message, I hope it helps you in some way.
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Hello Mario!
I have about 25-30 clients all using NethServer (for almost everything, from AD, File, Mail, Print, NextCloud, Zabbix Monitoring and more.). Some use a Windows Application Server, often this is only a Windows 10 VM, running as server, sometimes this is a real Windows 2016 or 2019 Server. In both cases they run as “member” server in the AD, and can use the available users / groups there.
Lower cost hardware
If budget is an issue, it’s always viable to run Proxmox on older, or second hand hardware, but using a real server is still better than a faster PC. PCs aren’t built to run 724356…
Any halfway decent server is built to run just that: 724356…
I’m using an 8 year old HP Proliant ML110 G6 at home, 4 cores, with hyperthreading (8 shown), 16 GB RAM and 2*2 TB WD Red Disks in RAID1. Storage is done on a NAS.
This is enough for a company with around 20 users.
Large Storage would be better placed on the NAS - saves the space for efficiency.
The NAS can be AD member and give permissions on it’s shares accordingly.
A Synology 4 Bay NAS (or larger) is what I often use, and this gives a good access performance.
Note:
As all my professional clients have all VMs on NAS (shared storage), I also use very simple storage for some Proxmox: only a single ssd!
Why not? There’s no relevant data on Proxmox disks, it basically contains only the Proxmox OS. This takes me 20 minutes to reinstall, on a new SSD if really needed. The VM Disks are all on NAS, and are safe there! The NAS also backs up itself (and the backups) to an external USB (Seagate Backup Hub Plus, 10 TB, good price!). The NAS does NOT make a backup of those Shares where VMs are running! Only from the Shares, where the backups are of the VMs! (Less corruption!).
I also use newest grade hardwaere in some environments, this is then a very different league!
Some personal friends also use Proxmox at home, also with Nethserver. Here, on some, the VM runs in the Proxmox, and Backup is done to NAS. (NAS only 2 bay, less powerful!).
ZFS I would only look at if your Server has more than 32 GB RAM! ZFS needs at least 8 to run, and you do need 1-2 GB RAM for Proxmox, and also some RAM for your VM(s)…
On lower end hardware, either a NAS or shared storage and / or a real hardware controller for RAID - or just use a single OS disk and store your stuff on NAS (With redundancy there…).
But don’t waste your time with MD RAID using mdadm or such! Not enough power on lower end hardware, IO limited!
The only “PC” I’m using as a Proxmox server is at a doctor’s practice, we use 2 mac minis as Proxmox, alongside a brand new HP Proliant Server (ML380 G10, 24 cores and 64 GB RAM). The Mac Minis are examples of single disk Proxmox servers in a relatively high availability environment.
I wouldn’t consider using larger than 1 TB volumes for VMs, the backup times increase by a multitude. As is, I have one client with a 600 GB NethServer disk, and one with a 1TB NethServer disk. Today I would make the disks smaller, and outsource some storage (more) to the NAS…
See also here, for a few ideas:
https://wiki.nethserver.org/doku.php?id=userguide:nethserver_and_proxmox
Hope these help answer some questions, I am sure you have more!
My 2 cents
Andy
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Thanks a lot Enrique and Andy, I’ve appreciated much your quick responses.
It makes me overthink my first idea, to have all centralized on one machine, even with backups.
Seems clearly better, built a more decentralized network topology, and separating VMs and Data from Proxmox or Nethserver itself, because it offers more flexibility and security, maybe in different parts of the building, in case of fire or water damage.
I will make up my mind and trying to built a Testsystem this Weekend with available equipment, and in case of success, soon get some more professional Hardware for office installation.
Good night from Germany
Mario
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Hi Mario
Even in the old days, one never put backups on the same disks as the “real”, live data…
In DOS days, and later, I’ve met “wise guys”, who thought using the “D” partition to backup the C: disk was a good idea - only to find out C: and D: where segments of a now defektive disk!
You know the old german saying (Sprichwort):
“Nicht alle Eier im selben Korb…” 
Gute Nacht vom südlichen Nachbar, die Schweiz!
My 2 cents
Andy
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Hello Andy,
maybe my statement “…centralized on one machine, even with backups” was a bit misleading.
What I meant was, Proxmox, Nethserver VM and all Data centralized on one machine, with Backups separated on Nas or USB drive, just to clarify.
But now I’m thinking of separating even Data and VMs, if it makes more sence.
Just need a little bit time to get my head clear, this week it’s a lot of trouble here on work
Hope we’ll stay in contact
Mario
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Hi Mario
Just arrived back home in Kreuzlingen after a trip to Lohr / Main…
If you’re stuck or need some tips when doing your testenvironment this weekend, don’t hesitate to ask or send me a PM…
Andy