And do good things!
I couldnt agree more Jim,
What is the point of having a minimal desktop. The CLI is the best interface to get your hands dirty.
But then you have the webgui? Whats the point of burdoning the Install ISO, if its already there on the internet…
Sounding like a M*#&*@ft update burdon…
I know that this is a dated thread, but may I add a little to it? Personally I am content with NS as is, however I must admit that when I first discovered NS and tried to give it a go before leaving zentyal I played with installing it on top of centos full so I could compare it with win svr 2012 side by side. Although I have a LOT to learn in many aspects, I have been using linux in some way for quite a few years and I’m comfortable with CLI so I am content without a desktop for my personal uses. With that being said, most businesses that I encounter have zero experience with cli and although many of them want to get away from windows the fact that NS doesn’t include a desktop by default scares them and they won’t even consider it. The last business that I was able to convince to give up windows server it took me 6 months before I could convince them to try it in a vm whereas if NS did have even a basic desktop they would have started testing it out immediately. In my opinion NS would have a much better appeal to windows server admins as a viable option if it did offer an optional conventional gui because that it what the vast majority of sys admins are familiar with… at least here in US that is. Linux admins are very expensive to hire and are pretty hard to find so companies don’t consider it an option. Granted a desktop gui wouldn’t solve all of their problems, if NS had an optional standard desktop then it would instantly become a viable option (in their eyes) as a replacement to windows server because of the comfort it would bring them with making a transition.
I know, good guys are really few on this earth…A GUI on a server…that’s a really bad idea…and we will waste a lot of MB in the ISO…
That’s said since you get the same Idea than mine, and your argument is just to sell more NS to non linux sysadmin, I just would know what software could be used in a GUI that you (your customers) really need.
With Linux you don’t have a lot of GUI software to configure your server, a lot are VIM’s based and I’m really really aware that you can messed up your server, if you try to edit configurations from a GUI software and the server-manager. It is the same if you use another ‘webmin’ like.
If the gui is just to open a firefox for configuring the server…I’m desperate :’(
By the way, I live in a free world, so the rigth command is :
yum groupinstall "GNOME Desktop" "Graphical Administration Tools"
This is directed at small to medium sized businesses, but having the ability to have a monitor connected to the server would be huge due to this being what they have always had. The software that would be most helpful to them (I am sure that I will miss something) in addition to having a basic browser would be having the ability to manage virtual machines through desktop tools. Being able to run wine for specific .exe tools that they may not be able to do without. Having the ability to manage printers without having to directly configure cups.
Please understand that I think that the devs have done an incredible job on an awesome OS with NS. This is simply feedback on my experience with trying to spread the word. Small to medium sized businesses often struggle with support (cost) and tend to support themselves and pay for pro support on an as needed basis. If they saw NS as windows-ish they would be quicker to make the transition. It also doesn’t help that historically IT here are taught that Linux is Evil which is what the end customers then hear. I account this to the fact that most IT professionals that have gone to school are taught by Microsoft instructors at the University level, and since the university’s are very well taken care of by Microsoft it’s allowed. *** Keep in mind** These are just my observations from the last few years based on my interactions with customers. If NS offered these types of things to directly take on Microsoft 's server platform, then it would be more appealing to small and medium sized businesses due to it having less of an initial learning curve. At least here in the US… I understand what you are saying, and the reasons for it. But, from the perspective of a small business owner its “too risky due to it being so different” (i.e “you mean I don’t have a desktop and only have to work through a webpage or command prompt?”)
Well I try to offer a maximum of stuff in my UI, mainly because the command line is a bug for me, I do understand what you say…But But
:’( I’m desperate however if you want to manage virtual machine, I’m not sure that NS is designated for this…I would prefer a Proxmox and a NS as a virtual machine. Then you can manage how much machines you need.
Wine on a desktop, why not, Not really sure to see interest on a server, for Cups, yes it is tricky…however even on my laptop I install them by the command line
I have in mind the zentyal’s story, they tried to be windows compatible …they went in a wall…the linux community went out of the project. Nevertheless you are right about universities and schools, they force their students to learn about window…and not enough about Linux. It is awful because the free software has won the war, you can see that even the ‘Linux Cancer’ has touch Microsoft
Like I say In french : La première dose de drogue est toujours gratuite.
The first dose of drugs is always free.
For what it concerns your issue, you might distribute NS with a GUI, It is simple to install.
This is the first time that I’ve heard this saying in reference to Linux and it is so accurate! LOL
I’ve enjoyed this conversation and I appreciate and agree with your logic. I just wish that Microsoft wasn’t as rooted here as it is. I would love to work each day with linux as opposed to working with Microsoft, but opportunities here are very few and far between. Maybe one day I can win the lottery and be able to start my own business with the focus of trying to convert as many businesses as possible to opensource and educating people that there are better options other than Windows.
I agree with your arguments if I’m looking to the end users computers, they need windows more by habits. In France we have a lot of experiences in the army and at the national assembly, they have (had for the assembly) Linux on their computers because Microsoft is an American company (sorry it is right) and they think that they cannot trust them about security holes of for more paranoid thoughts. Does big brother exists ?
In the French school we use Libreoffice instead of Microsoft Office, but the OS is still windows :’( With this government we loose some battles, Microsoft went with some cash to give to the school…and some years of fight were lost
Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes : I fear Greeks even if they come with presents
I recall a long discussion I have had with a friend about his customers…they want the window OS on the computers, but they need a ‘black box’ for the server…it has to work…no more…issues to solve…features to add are his job, not the one of the customers. Since the code and the documentation are open and free, If the company wants to work with someone else, it is possible.